Don't cram plenty of people on Zoom. Fluorescent light at the office all day long. You know,

you probably are going to work from home.

Hello and welcome to No Office, a podcast about work, technology and life from a remote

company perspective. My name is Rafal Sobolewski and as always, I'm joined by CEO of our No

Office company Nozbe, Michael Stravinsky. Hello, Michael. How are you today?

Hey, man. How are you?

Good, good, good. I sold my car and I'm enjoying it.

No, no office and no car lifestyle, but we will talk about it in the second part of the episode

Yeah, you know we haven't been talking much

So it's good that it's good to see you again and good to record again meanwhile

I've had some feedback from our show a few people wrote to me that they really enjoy listening to it, so

That's good. No formal. You know reviews, but just you know

unsolicited kudos from people so we should be happy so thanks everyone and if you want to rate this show on the podcast or

Wherever you listen to podcasts like you can and it would be really appreciated. So thank you. Yes. Yes. Thanks. Thanks for this

Yeah, and doesn't really decided we need to

reprioritize some things

Because we still run a Nozbe our company and our product. Yes, we do

So we decided that with this show, we will record it not as often, but at least once a month.

So don't worry. We still want to do this. And I feel very excited today because we had this break.

I was on vacation, so we decided not to record two weeks ago and take this opportunity to embrace

this new schedule. And I'm ready to record today. And today we wanted to talk about

working from anywhere you want. Exactly. Because, you know, the pandemic, apart from China,

everywhere else, we are not in lockdowns. So the pandemic is subsiding. Many people are vaccinated

and the ones that are not, like, whatever. The pandemic has become...

Yeah, in Western Europe, pandemic is on the break, I would say.

Yes, it's on the break. It's on the timeout. And especially in Western Europe, like in Europe,

so on the northern hemisphere also in the united states it's getting warmer so people will not be

as susceptible to be you know contaminated by the by the virus because you know we will be more

hanging out outside the crowds will meet outside so it's like it's it's it's it's just safer now

but anyway i think the good thing just a side note i think the good thing about the pandemic is that

people i mean from my experience with friends and colleagues is that people are more cautious so

So when they don't feel good, when they feel under the weather, they tend to just cancel and not go to a place where they would normally go before the pandemic.

So they don't want to sell viruses to people.

So this is really nice.

I mean, this is really, people are like more self-conscious about it.

So I think that's great.

But and I think that's the start of something new that you can now like move around.

You can work from different places.

And especially if your employer is as good as Nozbe

or as good as the employer's past pandemic are

in terms of a hybrid lifestyle.

So they let people work from not only the office

but also from somewhere else.

You could really embrace this and switch contexts

by switching places and work on different things

in different places.

- Yes, especially now when spring is here for good.

And after this two years of pandemic,

I think that was good for nature, for the green parts of the cities that are more vibrant

than ever right now, at least in Rotwaffe, in the place where I live. I really enjoy

spending time outside. And yeah, our no-office philosophy was never equal to working from

home because that's not what we wanted to promote. In Nozbe, in no-office philosophy,

can work from anywhere you want and use it as your advantage first for a more flexible

lifestyle and second to really even improve your work productivity to beat procrastination.

Yes, especially that you know for a fact that there is no way you can stay engaged and focus

eight hours straight. It's not possible. I mean, it's very hard physically to do. And if you do it

one day, then the next day you're just completely wasted. It's really hard to do it. So we are

productive when we work in spurts of time, like two hours here, one hour here, and we need breaks.

The breaks are important for our brain to have a moment to take five. That's why, for example,

the Pomodoro Technique was so famous for this thing that you work 25 minutes and you take five minutes breaks.

Because the break part is really important. And it's not about long breaks, it's about a short break.

just take five, take 10, take a short one.

And that's why this kind of philosophy to work from different places, and for example, in between,

to walk and have a walk or have a ride on the bike between these places, it's this additional

catalyst so that in the new place, you're actually more productive and more focused and more

concentrated.

Yes, that's true. And I can totally feel it on my example in recent weeks. And you're

You also wrote about it in the chapter 29 of your No Office book.

Yeah, I mean, this thing is so important that I dedicated the whole chapter about it.

I wrote an essay before on my blog, but then I dedicated the whole chapter.

When I was writing the book, I was thinking, "Do I really need to write this?" But then, yeah, it is important.

Yeah, it helped you with the procrastination of writing the next chapters, yeah?

- Exactly, exactly.

I mean, that was the whole thing, you know?

Because the idea to change offices,

to different tasks, different office,

you can work from anywhere.

This whole idea is to have this flexibility

and this agency to work from different places

and sometimes like tailor the place

to a context or to a task.

And in my chapter, I give some examples,

like for example, long term, I mean, long writing,

like when I was writing the chapter,

would actually step out of this home office where I'm here and go to my balcony. And on my balcony, I would sit down and work, I would just take the iPad, I would work there, you know, I would put a do not disturb. And for two hours straight, or three hours straight, I would write, like, this whole idea that I was there, like kind of for my brain was like a trigger. Okay, now it's time to write. That's just right.

And you don't leave the place till you are done with writing.

Exactly. Exactly. So you're not tempted to do something else like, like here when in this home office where I have, you know, here, my laptop, here, my things, and I, you know, and I can be tempted to do something else or, you know, switch tasks or whatever. No, I just take the iPad and I'm there. And I'm just, you know, focused on writing. And in my mind, I don't leave until I'm done, as you said,

Yeah, and there are no other distractions. Like maybe on balcony, it's not...

They can be still because someone can come to your door and ring the bell, etc.

Yeah, but this balcony is very high. I don't see anyone here.

Because I live in this townhouse, so that I have, you know, we have three floors, right?

So and my home office on the top floor with the balcony on the top floor.

So I have a nice view above the street and above everything else.

So I don't see people walking on the street. I don't see people driving the cars on the street.

So I'm not distracted by that. I see the long view.

So in the long view, there is really, you know, there is nature.

Yeah, true. And it probably really helps your eyes to rest for a bit,

to look at something that is far, far away. That's very helpful.

Exactly.

Right to time. Yeah. So what are your other tips and tricks? How you change offices now in 2022?

- Yeah, so for example, I'm back to what I wrote

in this chapter that I'm back to doing my weekly review

in a cafeteria, like before the pandemic, what I would do,

I would have this routine of dropping my kids at school

on a mighty Friday, on a Friday,

and then going to a cafeteria,

'cause this would be like killing two birds with one stone,

because I will have a treat,

have a different kind of coffee, different kind of breakfast,

And then in the same time, I would have to finish my weekly review.

And I am not allowed to leave the place until I'm done with the weekly review.

Again, the same thing.

My brain knows that I have to finish this here,

because otherwise the bartenders may look at me weirdly if I sit there for hours.

But on the other hand, I don't want to sit there.

And you don't want to spend too much money drinking five coffees.

Exactly.

I don't want to keep on ordering new coffees.

So yeah, so basically that was my treat.

And again, it's a great trigger

'cause I come there prepared.

I also, I just take my iPad there

and we can link to our product vlog

where we explained how we do weekly reviews

because we do them in Nozbe with a very cool checklist.

So we will link to our product vlog in nozbe.com/vlog.

So where you can see our latest one,

how we do a weekly review.

But anyway, that was the thing.

and I'm back at it.

And I can tell you frankly that if I don't do it like this,

I'm struggling to do weekly review.

So that's why I really need this trigger.

I need this treat, this change of scenery,

and just being there and not in my home office.

I have the same.

I'm physically not able to do my weekly review

when I'm at my desk.

I must at least take my MacBook

and sit in the com feature and have my MacBook on my laps,

and then I can do a weekly review, no problem.

[laughter]

It's just a different context.

Yeah, I would say it's really nice to, for example, last Friday,

I did this that first I went to a coffee shop.

I had my breakfast here.

There are coffee.

And I started my quarterly review.

I walked there for two hours.

I finished one part of the task, but I consciously

split this task into these two parts to do this part in this place.

and then I took a walk and I sat on the bench in the park to do the second part.

And actually being offline is a feature because I just opened my

quarter review note and just writing what I had in mind.

Yeah, because your laptop is offline, there are no notifications, no nothing coming in.

So that can be even an advantage over the iPad sometimes, but only in that context.

Yes.

Yeah, but still I had my iPad with me and when I was working in a coffee shop in a cafeteria,

I just used both using universal control, actually. So like this, yeah?

Uh-huh.

Yeah, so and iPad had an internal connection, but MacBook, no, no. So if I needed to check something

that required connection to write my quarterly review note, then I used universal control to

check it on iPad. So that was really nice. By the way, have you tried universal control on

on your site.

Not yet.

Not yet.

And no, I'm still, you know, the thing is, because I'm so busy right now with really

like with actual tasks in NoSpeed that we have so many things to do.

Yeah, I know, man.

It's this like, I'm kind of overworked there.

And especially we are doing lots of, you know, changes in marketing and stuff and lots of

work.

So I'm just focused on just getting this task done.

So I didn't have time to finish setting up my MacBook Air.

My still old iMac is still here because I haven't transferred everything.

So I haven't transferred everything to my MacBook Air and I haven't even played with other features.

So you want to say that your MacBook Air became MacBook Pro-crastination?

Yes, definitely.

And so I'm just getting stuff done on this thing.

And as long as there is nothing extra I need, then I'm just getting stuff done on this.

And I work still a lot on my iPad.

And speaking of switching places, for example, we just bought a new table for our living room.

room. And our living room is on the bottom floor. And then my

home office on the top floor. But because during the day, very

often there is nobody here. Like there's just me. So very often I

just come back from school from like delivering kids to school,

and have a coffee in the kitchen. And I just take the

coffee to the living room. And this new table is very nice. So I

just sit there with my iPad at this new table and work from

there. And again, it's kind of more casual because I'm just

there with my iPad and with my coffee. But as you have seen in

our meetings, very often I do meetings there right now in the

morning. And also, I just like today, I was sitting there

because of some other reasons. And then I just decided, you

know, I'm gonna just finish working there. And only until

like, you know, 10 before 12, where we decided to record this

thing, I just have moved up to my home office to set everything

up for this podcast. But until then I was just sitting downstairs. Again, different

environment. I am you know, cranking my tasks there, you know, and also like having a good

view and just because and enjoying just that there's nobody in the house anyway. So it's

fine. That's cool. I sometimes use because we have a new table and new charts on our

balcony. Oh, you see? Yeah, and many, many new flowers and bees actually, because we

of nature. I sometimes also do that, but mainly Anja, my fiancé, is occupying the balcony

for the whole day. So I don't have many opportunities to work there by myself, but it's a very nice

place.

I have one more additional thing that I actually discovered during the pandemic as a way to

do things differently. And I mention it also in the chapter of my book, chapter 29. Virtual

meetings with people while walking. So this is something I really started enjoying.

So very often we have one-on-one meetings in our company, and very often,

I mean not very often, we have these meetings very often, but when we do, these

meetings usually take an hour or two. Like they're longer meetings.

So instead of sitting and having the longer meeting, I would take my iPhone,

headphones and would go for a walk.

And usually the other party, the other person would do the same.

And we would be just walking together while not being together and chatting.

And usually we would start on video for a few minutes.

And then later we would switch off just to audio and just talk and walk.

And I could do like five, six, seven kilometers sometimes just walking around

and talking to the other person.

And I think we really both enjoyed this.

And it was first with one person, with Radek from the podcast fame.

But then later with many people, I would just do a one-on-one meeting while walking.

And I think it's great.

Again, you change the scenery.

You walk, so you do something for your kind of fitness.

Yeah, you walk and then your brain is walking better while walking.

Exactly.

Because it's got fresh air.

your heart is pumping the fresh blood and etc. So yeah, it works better. You have a better idea.

You're stimulating by the talk with the intelligent person on the other side. So

yeah, that's really nice. And actually, I will have on Monday, my quarterly talks with Camille

and Hubert. And I also plan to do the walk. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So that's something that I

actually discovered during the pandemic, because we couldn't meet people. And we could only walk

outside and you know only you know and when we were in lockdown there we could

for example only walk for it you know I don't know in a one kilometer radius for

example of our house so it was an excuse to go out of the house and do a walk and

and just do something and and now I want to keep doing it.

Yeah me too and I have some other tips also to share. Like tips, observations.

I'm still loving even more my MacBook Pro because like it's it's it's

It's fantastic. I don't even have to take the battery with me. It never dies.

I mean the charger. You don't need to hesitate. Take the charger with you.

The charger. Yeah, battery I have.

You do have to have a battery.

Yeah, I have a battery inside. Yeah, so I don't need to bring any charger.

And I love our backpack from Reunion. Actually, two backpacks, because one we got from Reunion

and I use it when I'm taking a walk. It's very comfortable.

And second, I have it, it's a bike backpack, so I can attach it to the trunk of my bike.

So that's better when I take my bike and ride it.

I don't have to have it on my back when I ride a bike.

And I love even more my case for my MacBook, because look at this, it's this Mofz sleeve

for the MacBook.

It can elevate it.

- Oh yeah, the one that elevates.

- Elevates it.

So the screen is in more ergonomic position.

The keyboard and touchpad are not because you have to raise the hands a little bit.

But you don't work like this for many hours.

So I think it's fine.

And it really helps also in coffee shops because you elevate the MacBook so it's safe.

When something spills on the table, your MacBook is safe.

And this sleep is water resistant.

So yesterday actually I worked like this for an hour in the coffee shop and I really enjoyed

Because with iPad you didn't have this problem with the old version of smart keyboard.

Now with Magic Keyboard it's kind of risky still, but it's only Magic Keyboard.

The iPad itself is safer.

Yeah, but the cool thing about the Magic Keyboard is that it elevates the iPad as well.

So it's a bit higher and I really appreciate it.

Another trick you can do is, for example, if you want to really go wild and work in nature,

you can bring your desk with you.

So in the previous episode, I was showing this,

my construction, you can take piece of wood,

like flat piece of wood, so like very small desk,

and attach it to the plate, which is the part of the tripod.

So actually it works like this.

And you can really squeeze it to the backpack

and take it with you.

- Yeah, that's really cool.

You have a stand-up desk in the middle of nature.

Yeah, I did it last year, two or three times. This year I haven't done it yet, but the summer

is ahead of us.

Yeah, it's coming.

Yeah, it's coming. One more thing that can stimulate your creativity, for example, when

you have the task to do, but it's really creative, creative work, yeah? I would go to the new

place, the new coffee shop, new restaurant, new park, to discover new places, to be inspired

with something, to seeing something new, to go outside of my routine. So that's something

I discovered recently that when I'm in the new place, I feel very creative. I have great

ideas and it can really help you.

Especially now, my observation is that after the pandemic, many cafeterias, restaurants

have been taken over by new owners because the other ones had to close, unfortunately,

all that stuff. But the good thing about it is that made many of these new owners I mean,

at least here when I like around me, I saw are doing like significant renovations and

you know, refurbishments of these places. And just yesterday, we went to, to a very,

very nice restaurant, which used to be a very nice restaurant before, but now they completely

rebuilt it. And it's very modern, very nice. It's like completely like, you know, it's

previously it showed its age. Now it looks like a restaurant

from 2022. So it's fantastic. And yeah, I felt so energized at

the place I felt felt so well. And the food was as good as it

used to be. So it was fine. But the most important thing was the

ambience like this not modern thing. So I think it's it's a

good way to try as you said, new restaurants, new new cafeterias,

new places because they can really inspire you and motivate you.

Yeah. And every time you go there, you can choose a different route to go there by walking or riding

a bike, which is the best option, I would say. And the other benefit is that often those places

have air conditioning, which I don't have in my house. And I probably don't want to have it

because I would use it for three months in a year and during the summer when I probably travel more.

So it's kind of not a good optimized expense for me.

And then that way I can hack it.

Also your family may be happy

when they finally have a home for themselves.

- Yes, exactly.

- When you, for example, go away to work in cafeteria

for one day in a week,

which is actually a case in my home.

- Yeah, the thing is that, you know,

people who now have this flexible lifestyle, like for example, your boss agrees to hybrid

work or you work remotely just like we do, or you run an internet-based

company, you know, a one-man shop or a consultancy, whatever.

Very often people are like, "Yeah, I have all this flexibility. I can work from anywhere."

And you still just work from the corner of your bedroom all the time.

So don't.

Start to shake things up.

It's like because you are now in charge,

you have the agency to change it,

to make it different, do it.

Just do it, Nike.

Change, shake things up, go somewhere else.

Enjoy this flexibility, and you will be surprised

that you will not be less creative or less productive.

Actually, maybe in the beginning, setting everything up and whatever.

But then later down the line, you will see the benefits

of changing the ambiance, the changing the environment,

the context.

Yeah, that's totally true.

Actually, I was thinking that these co-working places, they used to

be only in the city center, at least in my city. And now

when I was preparing for the show, I

I just searched in Google Maps to a co-working place

and discovered that there are actually some places closer

to where I live.

And I discovered the startup from my city, Space Labels.

And when I installed this--

I don't know.

I would try this.

I would probably hate it or love it.

But they installed these small cubes inside cafeterias.

Then they are soundproof.

They have high adjustable desk, com feature,

and you can rent it for hours.

- Wow. - Yeah.

So it's very funny.

I will try this and report back, but yeah.

I don't know if I love it or hate it

because it's kind of creepy,

but kind of cool on the other side.

- All right, all right, all right.

Yeah, speaking of coworking,

I used to also do is sometimes I would, for example,

go with my wife to her office. And I wouldn't work from her office like she works from her

office, but I would just go to the cafeteria in her, you know, because she works at a big

office. So I would go to the cafeteria at the big office, I would have a breakfast with

her, then I would work from the cafeteria, then we'd have a coffee. And then for example,

I would go home. And then she would stay and she would, you know, go home at the end of

the day. But this was something I really enjoyed, remember, because many of her colleagues are

also my friends, because we know each other from being parents of the kids and all that

stuff. So we know each other. So it was also a nice way to just socialize. So every now

and then I would meet somebody there and we would chat. So this would be also my way of

a person who works remotely to have a kind of work that is more susceptible to interruptions

because I would see people but a day of socializing. I would usually for that day have lighter

tasks so not requiring longer hours of writing. And this way it would be just having an office

without having this office, you know? So this is something I also recommend, like, you know,

I used to also visit friends who work in the office to just, you know, visit them, have

lunch with them, and then stay on for an hour or two with some light work there, just to

be again, be in a different environment, and then come back to my home office.

Yeah, that's that's that's also good strategy. And when you go to your wife's office, then

I think, do you feel like you love your job even more?

Because you see all the people,

they have to go to the office,

they have to wear a suit probably,

because they are lawyers.

- Yes. - And yeah.

(both laughing)

- I mean, completely.

Like, you know, I don't, you know,

I don't, you know, need to dress up every day

and all that stuff.

Like, you know, it's,

but you can see, you know,

because in her work now people can have the flexibility

to work a few days a week at home

And they can do that, and my wife does it.

You can see the difference when you bring the kids to school,

because then you can see who's working from home today

and who's going to the office by the outfit.

[LAUGHTER]

So yeah, it's a funny thing about the offices

and the attire in the offices.

Yeah, and OK, and the last tip on my list

is to always have with you,

uh,

I-N-C headphones.

- Most canceling headphones.

- Because you'll never know,

uh, which, uh,

which kind of people you will meet in the cafeteria.

In Poland, it's usually people are very quiet.

If they talk with each other around the table,

they are quiet.

They don't want anyone else to hear their conversation,

but there are exceptions.

And I think in Spain,

where you live, it's the opposite.

Like the Spanish people are very loud.

- Yes, exactly.

So the headphones are important.

I take them with me,

but let's talk about the headphones after the break.

So because then we can geek out a little bit

about the technology because I do want to have a point.

- Okay, okay.

So let's take a break

because we are sponsored by our own app, Nozbe.

It's a task-based communication tool

that you can use it by yourself or with your team

to communicate effectively in an asynchronous way.

Again, with your teammates or with yourself from the future.

So let's hear what Nozbe customers say about the product.

- Once I started using Nozbe,

that's when we started to really think beyond

like a freelance mindset to more of a team mindset.

And the beauty of it is that we can have a remote team.

So we can hire people based on their credentials

or based on relationships that we had

with people that we knew would be really good

and didn't have to hire based on location

and somebody that's within a mile radius,

something close to where we were.

It also, Nozbe is very intuitive and easy for a team to use.

So as we add new people, whether it's a contractor

or an employee to the team,

we can get them set up with Nozbe

and within really an hour, they can see projects

and tasks that are assigned to them and start working.

So most of our team's really taken those pretty easily.

(upbeat music)

- And we're back.

So Michael, you wanted to geek out about headphones.

So here you go.

- So first of all, I keep recommending the AirPods Pro

because they are so small that they can fit in the pocket.

- I'm waiting for the second generation

and still use my original AirPods.

(laughing)

So I love the AirPods Pro because of also the rubber,

they fit better in my ears as well, my ear canals.

But the most important thing, they're always on me,

which is funny to say because today I couldn't find them.

So I have to, I put them somewhere, they're so small.

But now that they are also in Fun My,

so it's easier to find them.

Anyway, this way, even if you're going outside,

even with your laptop or with your iPad or with your iPhone,

you can still put them on and have noise canceling

and just be quieter in a cafeteria.

So I would recommend these.

Of course, we both right now

are wearing noise canceling headphones.

So you have the Bose QC35, and I have the--

- 10C700.

Exactly. NC700. Exactly. So these are really good. And now Sony launched the whatever name they have Mark 5.

Yes. Exactly. Sony W5.

Yeah, exactly. So it's also there on the market.

So and as you said, the new AirPods probably are coming very soon.

also announced by Apple. So yeah, noise canceling headphones are really cool. Also, my wife is using, we bought on a break back Friday, we got a very good deal on the Beats.

- BitSolo? - What was the name?

Yeah, but not BitSolo 3, but the Solo Pro,

oh, BitSolo Pro, which are also with noise canceling.

And she got red ones, and she's really happy.

I had red, big red headphones.

Because BitSolo, the BitSolo 3 were on ear,

and BitSolo Pro are over the ear, just like these ones.

So they are really good.

And just yesterday, my wife had to have a meeting

while she was out with me having lunch.

So she could just sit back in the quieter part

of the restaurant and have the meeting

with the noise canceling headphones,

and it went pretty okay.

And then she could rejoin me and having lunch.

So as you said, there are many options right now

with the headphones.

I do recommend taking the bite

and having the wireless headphones

because really they're really good now.

and they're just very comfortable.

And again, no wires here,

so there's no risk of pulling something off the table

or doing something crazy

when you're sitting in a cafeteria.

So I do recommend choosing one of the wireless options

and especially with noise canceling.

- Yeah, totally agree.

I can't wait for Apple to release AirPods Pro 2

because my original AirPods,

They don't want to break.

They work like I bought them in 2017, actually.

And they still work.

After 20 minutes, I hear this, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh.

But they still continue to work for another half an hour.

So of course, after an hour, they are dead.

But yeah, now I'm using just the right one.

And if I really, if really battery dies,

I switch to the left one.

- Okay. - Yeah, but it's still fine

waiting for AirPods Pro 2.

- So, you know, headphones are really something

that you should consider.

But of course, if you're in a very noisy place,

so having like over the ear noise canceling headphones,

just like the ones that we have right now

recording this show, it's of course the best option

'cause then you're completely quiet, it's good.

- All right, so let's move on.

And yeah, apart from no office lifestyle,

I'm now running no car lifestyle, finally.

- Yeah, you sold your car, man.

- Yeah, finally, because I attempt to sell my car

starting from when we came back from reunion,

or even, no, before, even before reunion.

I put it on sale.

It was at the second half of March,

and now I managed to sell it at 11th of May,

or 10 of, or nine of, something like that.

So basically it's been over a week now

since I sold my car and I totally, we actually,

we found out we are loving this lifestyle.

Like activity rings on my watch, they rock.

Now every day it's like 1000 calories burned

without nothing, just like that.

Yeah, and it's just commuting now is fun.

I have peace of mind.

I don't have to worry where to park a car.

Is my car still there?

Are there any scratches, et cetera?

It's awesome.

And really, you can really pack a lot of stuff

if you have a proper bike and proper bike bags or chest

because Rania has this Dutch city bike, Batavus,

and it really has a trunk in front and trunk at back.

So you can, as you can see,

she is able to remove a lot of stuff,

even some plants to the garden,

to the garden of her parents and pretty easily.

And as you can see,

I finally take advantage of my pig design gear

with this mobile accessory,

but I can magnetically attach the phone to my bike

and really take pictures and videos of us riding a bike.

It's really fun, totally recommended.

What else I wanted to share is that I'm really impressed

with bike infrastructure in Poland and in my city.

It's better every year.

And I have many feedback to the city councils

in many areas.

But speaking about bike infrastructure,

I think it's still not perfect.

I still have some feedback,

but it's the only area where city officials

actually learn from mistakes.

And with each investment, almost every each investment,

they really fix those mistakes.

And this bike infrastructure is very comfortable to ride.

And every commute actually now in the city is like,

I would say that more than half of the distance

you travel with the really nice bike infrastructure.

And the potential of it to be even better

is really high in Wroclaw because we have five levers

and also we have a long, lightweight embankment,

which alongside the lever and this label embankment,

you can really have the nice bike paths

which are far away from the roads.

And they can be very good for transportation.

That's the tricky part because often this part

of the ground is not owned by a city,

but the whole radion or the railway guys.

So they have to, yeah, it's a political thing,

but slowly, slowly it's getting better.

And really the best bike paths are when they are far away from cars.

For example, now they are building new tram paths finally.

And alongside of these paths, there are bike paths.

The road for cars is like 200 meters away.

So it's really comfortable to ride and really enjoyable.

So I totally recommend it.

You can really live like that, especially when you don't have kids.

Yeah, I mean, speaking of kids, my kids finally this year started cycling much more, and they

are much more motivated to cycle.

And even our middle one, she's 10 years old, she got a new bike and she's really good on

this bike.

She likes riding it.

So we started to promote riding by bicycle a lot more.

The only problem is of course like in the morning to go by bike to school requires waking

up earlier and this is still a problem.

But for example my eldest, I would normally drive her to her training in the afternoon.

Now she's riding the bike and she had first accident.

I mean not accident but you know she fell off the bike and so she learned something.

I mean nothing really happened but she learned something that she you know because she was

just too, I think, too confident on the bike. So, you know, it was a good humbling experience for her.

Anyway, I'm enjoying this a lot more. So this way now, whenever I want to do something, you know,

want to run an errand or whatever, I just take the bike. And I have, I still have, this is the cool

part, I have still the chair, you know, for my bike, the chair to carry a young child, right?

So, and this chair, this is the chair that I used

when my 13 year old was small.

So on this bike with this chair, I used to carry hair.

Now she's 13 years old and she's my height basically.

So this is so funny, but still my youngest,

she's almost six years old, she still fits in the chair.

Like barely, but she still fits in there.

So I carry her on the bike.

I'm hoping that next year, I mean,

She already can ride a bike and she's good at it.

But because when we live,

so we live on the outskirts of the city

and we live in a kind of hilly place.

So this is a problem for cycling

because this requires like more power,

more, you know, the stronger legs.

- Or electric bikes. - So I'm gradually,

or electric bikes, exactly.

But I don't want to buy electric bikes

from my daughters at this point.

So what I want to do is practice with them,

practice, especially coming home, you have to climb quite a hill. So and they are usually

tired when they are coming home. So the idea is that, you know, we keep practicing, we

keep going on bike rides, and we keep practicing coming home, going the uphill and all that

stuff. So I'm hoping that even the youngest will be able to ride her own bike very soon.

And the other reason, the second reason that I'm still carrying the youngest and she's

not riding her bike, is the bike infrastructure. Because from my home to the nearest bike lane,

it's one kilometer. So we have to go one kilometer through roads, pavements, and all that stuff.

There is no bike infrastructure for us next to our home. And this is quite dangerous.

So I don't want her, the six-year-old, to ride her own bike here. If we would live just

right next to a bike lane it would be so much easier. So again this is my

way of saying people who run the cities like you know keep building the

bike lanes you know and keep building these things because we need them.

Especially that bike infrastructure is very cheap comparing to roads and

public transport infrastructure. And you know the thing is that the more you

cycle, the more you realize how stupid some parking places are. Like places

where the parking places are not necessary and these places could be used

as a bike lane, you know? I have few of these near my home that, you know, I would

and also there is for example a one-way street coming to my house which is so

wide that it has no problem and there is no problem of putting a bike lane there.

No problem. But nobody still did it. Like there is still not, you know, planned. I'm

I'm hoping it's going to come because there is no need for such a wide road,

you know, coming to this residential area. Like, you know,

like you can really split it into having a, you know, narrow row, narrow road,

and then a bike lane.

And the narrow road would also imply that people would not speed so much.

They would drive here slower. So you get two benefits and, you know,

in the same time. So, um, I'm hoping that, um, that in my city, the, the,

because they are building back infrastructure here.

So I'm hoping that they will continue to invest in this.

And I'm really happy that my daughters are embracing

the cycling lifestyle.

- Another benefit you can get if you really push it

and your daughters use bike every day,

and they have this uphill to ride,

when they come back home, they will be very tired

and go to sleep earlier.

So wake up earlier and go to school by bike.

And you have more time in the evening with your wife.

- If it worked that way. - Yeah, I know.

would be nice but very often they are very tired and they are very complicated to put to bed anyway

so you know i can't imagine

anything else you want to share or shall we wrap up this let's wrap it up and yeah you know and

again let's just repeat that we do encourage you to cycle more and the the weather is getting better

like like use the weather use the time and cycle more uh it's it's it's fantastic i'm really

enjoying this. Thanks for listening and what day is tomorrow Michael? Well tomorrow is Friday and if

it's tomorrow is Friday for you then it should be your mighty Friday. Exactly do your weekly review

plan priorities for next week and learn something new to have a great week weekend. All the links

and show notes you can find on office.fm/31. If you enjoyed this episode please share your tips

for walking from different places. Tweet them with #noface or comment under the episode entry

at nooffice.fm/41. Okay, that's it for today. Say goodbye, Michael. Okay, stay safe, have a great

work-life balance by being flexible, by changing, shaking things up, changing offices,

and just stay tuned. See you in the next one, and hear your next one.